Recently, Punk Globe got the chance to speak with Steve Fisk - the member of such bands as Pell Mell and Pigeohed, musical producer and engineer. Over the years, Steve used to work with such artists as Jesse Bernstein, Soundgarden, Beat Happening, Nirvana, Screaming Trees, Boss Hog, The Gits.
In this interview we speak with Steve about his very first musical infuences and Pell Mell, His production work over the decades, about Pigeonhed and his thoughts on the underground music scene, Hope you'll enjoy!
Punk Globe: You mentioned that now you’re working on a few projects. Could you please tell our readers about what you are doing ?
Steve: There’s a new group, The Grumps, with a new friend. Brodie Stevens aka Redskin. He’s a Native American rapper from the Salish tribe. . He’s was a fan of my solo records, Pigeonhed and Jesse Bernstein’s record “Prison”. Do you know about Bernstein?
Punk Globe: Yes, I think so.
Steve: Bernstein was a Seattle poet and musician. I produced grooves and sound design around his readings. I have a dumb straight forward approach to beats and looping. Back in the early 80’s I released cassettes. They were heavily influenced by Grandmaster Flash and other turntablists. Bruce Pavitt from Sub Pop was a fan. He asked me to work on the Bernstein record. He also asked me to produce an EP for Soundgarden and include a dub remix of their cover of “Fopp” by the Ohio Players. Soundgarden got signed and kept asking me to do remixes. So there are several of them: un-commercial Dub-deconstructions. Pigeonhed came out of all that. That’s my role in the Grumps, grooves, dub mixing and abstractions. I’m finishing our first record now.
Punk Globe: After the years of working as producer, you discovered such genres as rap and prog-rock,. For a long time your name was associated with “alternative rock”. But how does your job change depending on the style of music you’re producing ?
Steve: I take things as they come. I don’t really have a lot of firm plans. I always enjoy the time I get to work on hip-hop. I haven’t got to do that a lot in my life. But I understand that and it’s always fun for me.
When I was younger and a better musician, played a lot more – I was into prog, fusion and very little else. I was a very old man for being 26…but I was lucky enough to be going to The Evergreen State College, in Olympia, Washington. There is a very radical college radio-station there. KAOS 89.3 FM. I knew they did [played] outside stuff. I didn’t realized that they were famous nationally as one of the most progressive non comercial radio stations. It was much nicer than many American college facilities. They had the “Green Line” policy which meant the independent records all had green tape on the spines so DJ’s could see which records were “indy” be they punk, country, jazz or whatever.
Me and the other volunteers got a crash course in punk-rock and independent music which was exploding at the time. John Foster, the music director, and other KAOS staff started OP Magazine. You can find old copies online, But in the early 80’s it was the Whole Earth Catalogue of independent music! Every issue would have the places where you could get your records pressed, radio-stations that would play your music, pressing plants, other independent friendly zines. It was very small, grant funded , econo, and very beautiful. And between that and the first Sub Pop magazines that came from a similar brain trust, I got turned on to a much bigger music world. And the radio-station had the policy that really encouraged the DJ’s to do new things. This is a real long answer to your question. My time at KAOS taught me to appreciate the value across musical genres, which has totally informed my music career and the kind of projects I get involved in.
Punk Globe: In the 80’s you started releasing your solo-albums, but what you made change directions into doing production work ?
Steve: I think in punk-scenes, there was always at least one person who knew how to run a tape-machine. Or somebody who knew how to run a PA system or something like that. And that person got stuck recording the bands. Nobody wanted to or could afford to go to a real studio. That wasn’t punk anyway. Recording studios were where music went to die. Let’s set up a tape machine in the basement. Let’s set up the tape machine in a living room. Because, I was a keyboard/synthesizer-geek, not because I knew anything about recording drums or guitars, but because, I knew how to run a tape machine, make a recording and play things back – I got drafted into doing a lot of [recordings]…They sound good now. But it took years for them to sound good. ( laughs ).
Punk Globe: Who were some of your first musical influences ?
Steve: There was this song
It was an American novelty song – “Purple People Eater”. It’s famous but totally belongs to a time. Anyway, I was sitting on my babysitters’ lap – so I must have been very small. And “Purple People Eater” came on. I was attracted to the song because it had lots of special effects and rapid fire lyrics. But as a kid I could barley follow it.
My babysitter knew all the words and sang along. Looking up at her and seeing her singing along with the song. I said to myself: “Someday, I’ll learn all the words!” ( laughs ). So I can do what she’s doing, right now. Of course I’ve never did but that…I grew up when they were playing crazy shit on the radio. And besides the fact that The Beatles were getting stranger and stranger and stranger with every record…… I was on a panel at a TapeOp conference and we were talking about this very topic. What are the things that inspired you ? What were your early listening experiences ? And somebody mentioned “ They’re Coming To Take Me Away Ha-Haa!” :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They%27re_Coming_to_Take_Me_Away,_Ha-Haaa!
Everybody on the panel (Steve Albini, Ross Hogarth, Larry Crane, Bob Clearmountain, Jon Vanderslice) grunted or nodded. They ALL had heard this record at a young age. Side A was a tape speed trick. Side B was Side A in reverse. This record showed you all the tricks. It connected all the dots like, “Here is everything one could do in recording studios in 1965!”
Punk Globe: Among your body of work , critics usually notice Pall Mell as one of the projects that defined the direction of your further career. At that point, you joined the band as keyboard player. Could you please tell me a little bit about that period in your creativity ?
Steve: I was living in Olympia. I was putting out weird records. For whatever reason I wasn’t interested in being a singer with a band, playing shows and doing all those things. And actually, an instrumental group, Pell Mell was my favorite band. My friends and I all dug Rhyming Guitars. Bruce Pavitt from Sub Pop managed Pell Mell for a short period of time. And without really saying it out loud, I knew I wanted to do something as beautiful and well conceived as them. Arni May, one of 2 Pell Mell guitar-players left. And they were a three-piece for a short period of time. I mixed a live-recording of the 3 piece version’s show at the Met in Portland. (https://pellmell.bandcamp.com/album/1982-it-was-a-live-cassette) Anyway, in the middle of that session, I kind of had the balls…We were dropping off gear from the session. And I said: “Ok, guys! Pull over! We should talk.”- there were two guys from Pell Mell in the front seat. I was in the back seat. So I explained to them that I was done with living in Olympia and I told them that if there’s a situation would they’d consider me as the fourth member of the band etc etc. And Bill [Owen] and Bob [Beerman] kind of looked at each other across the car-seat and started nodding. They had already discussed asking me to join. They didn’t want another guitar player and wanted to do something different. This is right when they moved to San Francisco. I followed them down, about four months later. We played around the Bay Area a lot. It was a bad time for us, for other bands and music in general. It was a doldrum. We didn’t last long and broke up in ’85. Everybody went their own direction. That was theoretically the end of Pell Mell. In our new locals we all ended up having access to small studios and starting sending tapes around. In 1990 we got together and recorded it for real. Greg Freeman produced it at Low Down, his studio in San Francisco.
https://www.discogs.com/Pell-Mell-Flow/release/453929
Punk Globe: And how important was this for you becoming of producer ?
Steve: I was very very serious about Pell Mell. When we disbanded in 85 I was pretty lost. I mean, this was my band! We’re going to get better! We’re going to make records! I felt that eventually people would catch on to what we were doing. And people did. But that was f***ing 11 years later ( laughs )! People started diggin Pell Mell in the early 90’s. But in ’83-84 it was like: “Hey, this is Pell Mell! Come on…asshole!” (laughs). I didn’t really have a plan “B” . I left SF and returned to Ellensburg where I ended up filling a vacancy at the studio. That’s where I really got good at recording drums and guitars and getting good takes out of musicians, learning how to listen to what people want and what people need. And also, part of being in a studio in the middle of nowhere, you were asking about genres and how it affects recording, one day I’m recording some gospel singers and the next day, I’m recording The Screaming Trees and day after that I’m recording some classical piano soloist. I really should thank Sam Albright here. He built Velvetone and trusted me to run it. I couldn’t get any traction in the Bay Area.
Punk Globe: At that point in your career you used to work on lots of albums and EP’s for K-Records. Starting with Screaming Trees and finishing with Beat Happening. Was it all around that period of time ?
Steve: Yes! Exactly! The Screaming Trees had been together for a while. And I knew Mark, Mark Pickerel the drummer. He wrote me when I lived in Oakland - so I looked him up when I got back to Ellensburg. I became friends with Screaming Trees. I think within 6 months they wanted to record. We’d made this first cassette – “Other Worlds”. And then, went on to make three other records together. It turned out they where childhood friends with Calvin Johnson. I got to reintroduce them. They recorded and toured together. Pretty neat.
Punk Globe: One of the main things of your recording at that point – is that you’d never tried to polish the sounds of the records you’ve been working on. Even though that many of these records were released on vinyl and CD, there was also a piece of this underground cassette-type-aesthetics presented there. Can you say that working with these bands you tried to safe these sounds and atmosphere in general ?
Steve: Well, that’s the punk part of it. There’s nothing stupider then these overproduced punk-records that came out in 1980 that were done by A-list producers.They made the guitar shiny and cleaned up all of the distortion. Good records – I had no problem with that. But I didn’t want or know how to make those kind of records anyway. The punk ethos back then was if you’d spend more than a few days in a recording studio it’s gonna sound like shit. Because, that’s what the regular bands do. So the idea that you did everything in a hurry and more – that you kept it honest sounding….. By the time I was recording The Screaming Trees, I was really well acquainted with all kinds of gorgeous music that had lots of rough edges. And still didn’t get in the way of something rocking or being sentimental or heartbreaking or beautiful – all the things music can be. That’s part of my experience from being in Olympia, OP Magazine and KAOS, embracing the idea that everyone has a song or something to sing about.
Punk Globe: Quite a lot you’ve been asked about grunge and alternative rock. Styles that mostly exploded later on. While all the influential bands of American underground scenewere formed pretty much, during that period – in the early, mid-80’s. So let me ask you, what was is it about Seattle, in particular?
Steve: That’s a very good question. And I don’t know if I got the answer for you! But it is something that I have been paid to think about ( laughs)! I worked on a music exhibit here in town that asked me to look at 1989-1990 and explain how things happen differently in different scenes. And also the idea that the 90’s happened in Seattle but the roots of the 90’s are the 80’s and that was spread out all over the Northwest. Portland Eugene and Boise, and the dinky towns all across the region. Some had record stores some didn’t. Same for college radio or venues. A complex set of factors. No real answer.
Punk Globe: But did you feel yourself as a part of the grunge movement?
Steve: I feel like I’ve been part of three and a half movements. To participate culturally in the hippie-period, punk-period, the 90’s thing, the death of music retail. I feel fortunate to be here to witness all this and to participate in it as well.
Punk Globe: In the early 90’s you united with Shawn Smith forming Pigeonhed. Which, you were back to-being-musician for you At that period you also recorded some parts – for Mark Lanegan’s solo-record etc. But how did it all come about with Pigeonhed band ?
Steve: Jonathan Poneman of Sub Pop was trying to help Shawn Smith get established. He had financed some tracking for him. I got asked to do some demos…I’m actually looking at them right now! There are…1,2,3,4…6 12-inch reels full of Shawn Smith’s songs – him playing everything. And then the Bernstein’ record happened. That’s where Shawn heard what I did with loops and sound design. The idea for Pigeonhed happened between three of us: me, Shawn and Jonathan. Sub Pop rented us a bunch of gear that was loaded into my store front space in Belltown. We had a blast. Shawn was so happy. He was learning new shit. Some of that record still sounds pretty out there.
Punk Globe: And even though you got Kim Thayil recording guitar-parts, if was mainly your work and your production. What did you feel after getting back to being a musician after so many years doing-production work ?
Steve: I thought it was great working on music people were hearing ( laughs ). And I really appreciate your kind remarks. Even though Shawn was young and wasn’t really a producer(yet) he was a big part of the production and sound of that record. We were listening to Prince, Michael Jackson and the Beastie Boys. We were listening to Ice Cube and Public Enemy. Shawn was very specific about sonics and groove . So even though he was green it’s a mistake to assume it’s ALL my production. Shawn had to do a lot with that record. Sub Pop were supportive with the first record and it was very well received. Bigger in Europe than it was in America. What’s new?
Punk Globe: Working on various projects you used to provide some killer arrangements, recording the parts of many different instruments - which also may be called “production work”. With it, there are plenty of recordings where you used to work with the band, recording the parts, mixing them and just literally – creating a record. Do you enjoy doing that ?
Steve: It is a different situation certainly. For me, for the people I “produce”, the roll is to help you make the decisions every step of the way. And by the time you’ve made 20 decisions, 100 decisions or 500 decisions – the record is produced. And you’re both part of it. We produced it together, whether it is a band or otherwise.
Punk Globe: Thanks so much for the interview Steve. Final question, what helps you to sense the direction that you should go with ?
Steve: I have no idea. It’s a combination of discussion with the artist, my own history and proclivities, and intuition. Not knowing where it is going to land keeps it interesting.