I first saw and met The Joe Jackson Band on their 'Look Sharp' tour at the Old Waldorf.... The band kicked kicked major ass that night.. I met Joe that night and would later meet the band... I adored their managers John Telfer and the late Eileen Treacy.. People were talking about the show long after they were back in London. Critics have said that this band was the best incarnation of any of Joe's ventures... They were a tight well oiled machine... I was lucky enough to speak recently with guitarist Gary Sanford... Please enjoy the interview and be on the lookout for his daughters Eli Rose Sanford's release 'State Of Mind' out now on all major platforms....
Punk Globe: How long had the band been together before signing to A&M
Gary: We weren’t a band before that. Well, Graham had been in bands with Joe. I’m not sure about Dave but they all lived in Portsmouth and gigged on the local Portsmouth music scene. I met Joe through Drew Barfield, another Portsmouth musician, who I believe went to the same school as Joe. Drew and I were at Goldsmith art school together in London and formed a band. Joe would jam with us when he was in London and we would go to Portsmouth to play on Joe's demos. Well I would play and Drew would sing. That was before punk, when you had no chance of making it without a voice like Drew’s! Graham was always on bass but I didn’t meet Dave until the Look Sharp Demo.That was the first time we all played together. I don’t think we played together again until we recorded the album. When Joe got the deal with A&M he asked if I’d play on the album and do some gigs. I do remember saying “if it doesn’t take up to much of my time”. Ha, little did I know!
It all happened so quickly and easily. I think it was so easy musically with Joe because he is great arranger. When he played me the songs on piano, he had the guitar parts in his right hand, the bass in his left and the drums in his head. This made it easy for me to quickly pick up the basic guitar parts, and then in the studio, it all fitted together like a jigsaw puzzle. As well as good songs well arranged, I think we all knew that when we played together there was a spark and this was something special.
Punk Globe: Had you played with Joan Armatrading or any other acts prior to joining the Joe Jackson Band?
Gary: Joan Armatrading came after Joe but long before Joe, I started gigging three nights a week with an Irish band. I was fifteen at the time. I went on to play with local bands like John Doe that I’d formed with Drew Barfield, Tony Kelly and Steve Tatler. John Doe was the best band ever! So close as friends and tight as a band. It was a bit like your first love. It’s your whole world and means everything, it’s the real thing and you are in bliss. That was until I had a bad acid trip and dropped out! When I started to get my head together and get back into playing music again, (with my new positive energy) punk was just starting and I started going to gigs and getting involved in this movement. It was just what I’d been looking for, the energy was right up my street and it was a movement that would bring music back into the hands of the people. (I hoped) Well it did until the music business got it’s claws into it again. My favourite venue at the time was the roundhouse, as every Sunday it was punk night and I would go religiously. I then decided to form my own punk band and started writing songs. Although I knew more that “three chords” I really enjoyed the wild energy and It meant I could sing, even though I couldn’t! We were playing the usual places and having fun. I’d even recorded a single for a little Indie label but I can’t remember the name of the song or the company or whether it even got released or not! Fun times and I didn’t really give a shit.
Punk Globe: How did the band hook up with John Telfer and the late Eileen Treacy of Basement Music? Two of the nicest people in the business...
Gary: John Telfer was a publisher who discovered Joe first. He signed him to his publishing company and helped him along a bit then decided to manage him. They were lovely people. In fact John introduced me to Phil Shaw the singer of Swimming to France and that’s another story.
Punk Globe: The 'I'm The Man ' tour had you playing larger venues.Your first album 'Look Sharp' was a certified gold hit with so many hit singles off it.. Do you remember any shows that stood out for you?
Gary: To be honest I don’t remember much but I definitely don’t remember a bad show. The chemistry on stage was always so good that I enjoyed playing all the shows, whether it was to 10 people at the ‘Hope and Anchor’ or to 60,000 at the Pink Pop Festival in Holland, which was probably the biggest show we ever did. Everything was so huge at Pink Pop! They had two stages side by side and it felt like it was 30 feet in the air. We were so far away from the audience and each other on stage that it felt like you were playing in your own little bubble a million miles from band mates and the crowd. I suppose you’d get used to that if you were a stadium rock band but we were used to playing clubs and maybe theatres which were the biggest venues we’d done before that. The ‘Hope and Anchor’ on the other hand, which was one of our very first gigs (in fact it was a four week residency) was the total opposite. A tiny stage in the basement that only held about 70 people at most. On the first week there were 10 people there and by the third show it was sold out and people were queuing around the block.That was exciting! I did love those hot sweaty club gigs on small stages where the audiences were in your face shouting and screaming at you, even spitting at you sometimes. Although I never enjoyed the spitting! But I really loved those small gigs where you could see the whites of peoples eyes. You could really feel the crazed energy from the crowd which made me play even harder.
As we progressed into the second album and tour, I remember the gigs got slicker and more professional and it developed into more of a show, whereas in the early days we just did what came naturally. I did love jumping and running around on the big stages though. I tell you it kept me fit! There were a couple gigs that I remember for different reasons. The fist was in London in the early days. Just after we did the ‘Hope and Anchor’ we did another four weeks residency at the “Nashville Rooms” in West London. I remember arriving at one of them to find that the punk band that had played the night before had left a turd on stage and no one had cleaned it up! That stuck in my mind! The other was on the second tour I think. I believe It was in New Jersey. It was an open air gig at a big adventure park, or something. I remember it because we had flown in from London the same day and were due to do two shows the same night, which meant we’d been up for almost 24 hours. We got through the first show but by the second I was so tired I felt like I was tripping. I truly thought someone had spiked me! I remember it being so surreal. It was a hot summers night, with so many people and every note was ringing out across the audience and drifting away into the dark sky very slowly. I kept thinking to myself, had I fallen asleep between shows and was this all a dream? I do hope we played well that second show, if not, I do apologise to anyone who might have been there. For me, It’s always been about the vibe on stage and the music though, not how many people we were playing to.
Punk Globe: You also recorded and went on tour with Beat Crazy.. The cover of Beat Crazy really stood out so bright... Was the design concept the bands or the label?
Gary: I’m not really sure. I can’t remember the details. I didn’t have anything to do with it. I was shown a few different pieces of artwork maybe, but Joe made all the decisions.
Punk Globe: The next tour was the Steppin Out tour. That is when I met Joy and the fabulous Sue Hadjopoulos.. I believe Graham was there on bass but you were missing in action.. I asked about you about you. But never got a real answer. Did you move on to greener pastures? I really missed you..
Gary: Dave had had enough and left the band first. Joe then split the band up completely. He carried on using Graham but left me out of any future ventures until the reunion. After the Joe Jackson Band split up people were asking me to play with all these different artists. A&M were really good to me, they hooked me up with some other artists on their label. First they introduced me to Bryan Adams but when we got in the studio we quickly realised it wasn’t working. Bryan wanted a slick rock guitar player and I was too punky! So then they sent me to meet Joan Armatrading and we hit it off immediately. It was probably the reggae influence and at the time she wanted a harder edge to her music than the session players she’d used before. Either that or she was on a tight budget! Ha ha. Anyway, we hit it off really well and I had a great time recording five or so tracks for the Walk Under Ladders album. On two of them I got to play with Sly & Robbie, the greatest reggae rhythm section ever! We had a long jam too before Joan arrived. It was a wonderful day! I went on to tour that album and record some more tracks on her next album, The Key. I was asked to do that tour also but I turned it down to stay in London with a local band I’d been working with around that time called Swimming to France with Phil Shaw, Andy Jacques (who was in my punk band and is also on my latest recordings), Greg Mason and Dave Houghton was with us on some of the recordings and gigs. I’ve just found out recently that someone has released some of the Swimming to France recordings on Spotify and iTunes etc...I have no idea who but I keep meaning to look into it. There’s also some videos up on YouTube. (I think you have to look up Phil Shaw’s channel as they're not easy to find.) After that I became a kind of terrible session player playing the odd track here and there for various people but I hated it! I realized I’d become part of the musical octopus ride that had disgusted me a few years earlier, so I spent most of the time gigging on the Irish scene in London. I eventually met up with Roddy Frame and joined the Aztec Camera touring band. Roddy recorded with one set of musicians and used me when gigging. Probably because he liked to play all the guitar parts himself on the Album but needed a second guitar on stage. I loved working with Aztec Camera. Roddy was a real gentleman. He really was a brilliant songwriter and musician and was always fair to everyone. I spent 10 years on and off working with him, the best musical years of my life. Roddy had Mick Jones of The Clash sing with him on his single Good Morning Britain in 1990. Mick would come on bits of the tour with us, so I got to know him and when he wasn’t there I got to sing his part, that was special! We became good friends during that tour and remained friends after that. I then did a tour with Kirsty MacColl. That was a great band too. Dave Ruffy and Segs Jennings from the Ruts were the rhythm section. We had some great gigs and wild times on that tour I can tell you!
Punk Globe: Which brings us to the reunion tour. Was that in 2003... You played The El Rey and slayed the crowd... Were you all stoked by the response you received... I thought the band would reunite and tour more.. After all that line up was probably the best version of any of Joe's bands Any thoughts?
Gary: Yes, it was great to get back together again. It felt like putting on an old glove. Once again I don’t remember any particular shows. I have to go on YouTube and watch them again to remind myself! Ha ha! I was told at the beginning that it would be a one off thing and that’s what it is.
Punk Globe: The UK Subs with Charlie Harper recorded 'One More Time' have you heard it?
Gary: Yes, it’s great! Lots of energy! They’re a great band. Always loved their stuff. I love the selection of songs they’ve covered on that album, Subversions II. In fact, I remember doing a couple of radio interviews on my own in small towns in the US on the early tours and playing DJ The UK Subs were always on my playlist. Charlie and his band still keep up that powerful energy to this day! He’s a real trooper.
Punk Globe: Your daughter has a release coming out? Are you playing with her?
Gary: Yes, State of Mind is the track. We’re not in a band together or anything. It’s just one of my tracks I started in the studio. I finally got round to doing some writing and recording of my own again after 40 years! I've got a little recording setup at home now so I’ve just been letting my mind flow free with whatever musical ideas pass through my brain and trying to capture them. No particular style or agenda. I started this track and thought it would be nice to have my daughter, Eli-Rose, singing on it, so I got her over and within 5 minutes she’d written the lyrics and melody that you hear. She’s so talented and deserves to be heard so I decided to put it out there. We also have a video on YouTube filmed and produced by a good friend of mine Paul Harmer. It helps to have talented friends when you’ve got very little money.
Eli-Rose is also working with “Sasha and the Shades” who have just released a few tracks from their forthcoming LP. Eli's mostly doing backing vocals but she’s singing lead vocals on Echoes. They are definitely worth checking out.
Punk Globe: I know that you had toured with Kristy MacColl Are you playing with anyone now?
Gary: No one on the big stage. I had decided after the Kirsty tour, even tough I’d had lots of great times, that I preferred playing music closer to home with friends and being with my family and I didn’t really want to tour anymore. But when Joe asked me to record Volume 4 and tour again I thought I must, just for old times sake. I’ve only ever toured with people I’ve really liked or admired but the last tour with Joe was to long and left me thinking never again! Touring isn’t as glamorous as most people think.You spend hours just waiting around mostly. It’s only when you get on stage do you remember why you are there. It can be very lonely too but at the same time, you spend so much time with your band mates in very close vicinity. Also, as you may have noticed, I really don’t think much of the music business and all that goes with it. I’ve never been one to seek fame and fortune but I’ve never wanted for anything either. (I seem to have very good karma) All I have ever asked for is honesty and fairness. When punk first came along I just felt it was the best thing that had ever happen in the music world, it was a leveller. The true ethos of punk is music by the people for the people. Anyone can play, anyone can sing, no one is better than anyone else. It’s our music for us but the music business always finds a way in and exploits everyone and tries to turn everything into a money making machine, if you let it. That’s not what it’s all about for me and I’ve always preferred to play music with friends in my local community and there are plenty of really good, interesting musicians out there. Also the way it is with the internet now, anyone can release a track and get it out there. Record companies have really been brought back to earth. I help run a couple of open mic/jam sessions and teach guitar and I really enjoy that, but mostly I spend hours and hours in my music room. Up until about five years ago I don’t think there was a week that went by without me gigging somewhere with someone since I was 15 (except when I was on holiday). But I don’t have a band as such now, although I do the occasional gig with friends and of course my Hendrix project. The last gig was at the Hope Festival near London. I used one of my pupils, Xavia Oakley, on bass and Ivan Hoe on drums. I’ve always been a huge fan of Jimi Hendrix. It’s pretty wild to play too. Lots of raw energy!
Punk Globe: Do you have any Internet Addresses you would like to share with the readers?
Gary: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gary.sanford.180
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8keOduUUzSpNv1OigaeBBQ?view_as=subscriberand
Punk Globe: Gary, Describe yourself in just three words?
Gary: Getting old, addicted to red wine and wise enough to know that I don’t know very much at all!
Punk Globe: Any last words for Punk Globe readers?
Gary: Yes, keep the flag flying. Get out there and form your own bands (if you haven’t already) Do it for yourself, support your local music community and most of all have some fun!
